The following post is meant to start a discussion. I am not saying that I’m right. I’d love to know your opinion.
I often hear people say that everything happens for a reason. I think that some things happen for a reason but not everything. Somethings we can trace back to the reason. For example…
- If you have bad gas then the reason is because of something you ate.
- If you gain weight then the reason is because you ate too much.
- If you are lazy at your and you get fired then the reason is because you were lazy at your job.
- If your house smells gag nasty then the reason is because you have animals who stink up the joint or because you don’t clean.
- If you make a bad choice and suffer the consequences then the reason is because you made a bad choice.
I’m on board with saying that there is a reason for some things, but I’m not on board with saying that everything happens for a reason. For example…
- The other day I fell down the stairs. What’s the reason for that?
- The other day I knocked over a glass while making breakfast and it spilled water all over my floor. What’s the reason for that?
- A friend of mine is pregnant after years of trying. I just got word that she had a miscarriage. What’s the reason for that?
- I blogged about Emily. Emily is an eight year old girl who has had cancer for most of her life. What’s the reason for that?
- After three years of trying to get pregnant God blessed us with a pregnancy. It was a miracle. The doctors said that we could not get pregnant without help and we did. At our eight week appointment the doctor told us that we had a miscarriage. What’s the reason for that?
- Our twins had surgery yesterday to for hernias. What’s the reason for that?
The Bible never says that everything happens for a reason. Many people will be able to look at the events that I mentioned and find a potential reason. I’ve had people say to me that the reason we had a miscarriage was to be a blessing to other couples. That’s not a great reason for something to happen. The Bible compares God to a perfect father. Imagine a dad torturing his son so that he could relate to someone else who has been tortured. That doesn’t make sense. For God to bring pain so that a person could be a blessing is not a reassuring reason. On the other hand…
The Bible says “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.” Romans 8:28 (NIV). The word that I want to focus on is works. God works for the good. I don’t think that everything happens for a reason. We live in a fallen world where unexplainable tragedies occur. I drove myself crazy trying to find a reason as to why we went through our miscarriage. On the other hand God worked in that situation to draw us to Him. God worked in that situation to allow us to be a blessing to others. We have been able to comfort many people because of our story. God worked in spite of our mess. God works for the good.
Sometimes there is a reason and sometimes there is no reason that will suffice. Instead of a reason we have a relationship. God works to draw us to Him and to make good out of the bad things that happen. I don’t think he causes the bad things so that we can be a blessing to others.
So what are your thoughts?
Thank you for this blog Rob, this post was right on time… Yesterday was a really tough day for us.
I just put my stuff away after working on a sermon on the Sovereignty of God. If anything can confuse me it is that. To be honest, I don't know how to answer your question. Whenever someone points me to Romans 8:28, I always point them to verse 29 that says we are "predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son." While I don't believe in luck or chance or coincidence, I do believe that which does happen (good or bad) is designed to conform us to His image. But sometimes I see no rhyme or reason behind it all. I know I haven't added much to your discussion but those are some thoughts running through my head as you post this.
Rob, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Almost five years ago our youngest son Ben was is college. He went to a beer pong party the first night of football season, then decided to drive, had an accident and died as did the woman whose car he hit. We were devastated but I understood that he made a horrible choice and paid the consequences. Four months and two days later, our middle son, Blake went to work and was electrocuted touching something that shouldn't have been electrified and died. This made no sense to me. Blake had been through a rough set of years and had finally been getting his life together, which made it all the more tragic. Many well meaning people told me that it was God's plan. I just couldn't buy it. But I grew up believing in God and in the midst of my grief knew I had to find a way back to him. Melissa Horton came into our office as a patient and when I saw where she worked ask her about her church. She, of course, raved about it and told me I needed to come. I came a few times while you were at the YMCA and was intrigued, but after you moved closer to me I came more often. You spoke one Sunday on this very subject. When you said God doesn't make bad things happen he is just there for us when they do, I knew I had found a new church home. I am thankful everyday for Waters Edge Church and all of you who work so hard to spread God' s love to our community.
Brian, I'm sorry to hear about your tough day. If there is anything I can do let me know.
Bill, great thoughts! Predestination is such a tough subject if you believe in free will. Somehow I think they work together but that doesn't settle well with some.
Kim, I'm so glad that you met Melissa and then found Waters Edge. Melissa is amazing! I'm sorry to hear about your two sons. There is nothing that I can write that won't seem trite. I praise God that He works!
One of the frustrating things about the "why" questions is that most of the answers won't be known this side of heaven. I have been through a lot of crap and I really don't have a clue about why.
I agree that God does not plan for us to go through bad things. One of the worst things I have been told is it was God's plan or it wasn't in God's timing. I know we serve a loving God who does not want me to suffer. However, we do grow from every experience we go through so eventually a positive can be found from negative situations, even if the original event was not His plan.
Great post, Rob.
When people tell me "everything happens for a reason" I want to punch them. When they say "all things work together for good, so it'll happen eventually!" I also want to punch them.
I was talking about this recently with good friends who have had three miscarriages. It's heartbreaking. We ask God why He's doing this. We ask God why we can't just have what we desire. We just don't get it. I agree with Daniel on this one. Most of the questions we're asking won't be answered on this side of heaven. We're self centered human beings. We can't see past the here and now. The Bible says things work together for good. Good is not the same as happiness. What looks good in my eyes could look much different in God's eyes. We try and figure it out, but I don't know if we ever will in this life.
We are but tiny blips in the grand scheme of things. We live in a broken world full of pain. But we weren't made for this world! One day we'll be where we were meant to be! I don't know why we have to suffer, or be in pain, but I do know in the end…oh it'll worth it, beyond what we can imagine. Most of the time I struggle with this. But I know without a doubt that God is good. All things will work together, not for my happiness or comfort or peace, but my good. And I know that God is good.
That's a tough post to read. I agree it's a blend that some events have a purpose and others do not. I also think that we can assign purpose and meaning to some of these things that occur, which elevates them from the mundane to the divine.
Personally, I tend to ask the wrong questions of God, especially during tragedies. After the deaths of both my parents – God revealed that the "why-type" questions I asked didn't serve His purpose. His specialty seems to be "how-type" questions (i.e. How can this event further the Kingdom? How can God redeem this irredeemable loss? How can beauty come from ashes?…etc).
He can answer "how" questions in His timing. It's not a great answer, since most of those are waiting for us on the other side of eternity.
Great post… I think so often in our pain folks try to say "something" to fix or heal or cure our pain and they grab at sayings like "everything happens for a reason" or worse yet quoting scripture. But, isn't it a gift when someone can sit in our pain and not offer trite solutions but experience our grief WITH us, maybe even in silence… (Nouwen talks about this). But, I totally agree there ISNT a reason for everything. I did hear something once that was thought provoking… "nothing happens to us that hasn't already passed through the hands of a loving God" – which was interesting in fleshing out predestination. Though God doesn't cause those bad things by any means he knows the evil ones plans and knows his greater plans for good… Just thinking "out loud".
FYI: when I say "worse yet they quote scripture" I just mean it is HORRIBLE timing and context and they pick all the "get over it and move on scriptures" instead of following Romans 12:15 and rejoicing when their brother is rejoicing and fulling mourning when they are mourning. Just had to clarify my soapbox 🙂
fully not fulling – oops 🙂
What I find frustrating is that God sometimes seems to be WAY too subtle for me. If I am supposed to get something out of a tragedy, then He needs to be clear. Otherwise I just continue to stumble forward learning nothing but now more filled with bitterness, anger, resentment, frustration, doubt ….
I think there is abpurpose and a reason that everything happens. Most of the things you listed have a physiological explanation, but offering that explanation wouldn't be very therapeutic for the people having suffered those losses, or potential losses like your 8 week scare. In the worst of situations, God can work wonders in and through the faith of his people. Some reunite families, and some leave us in pieces..at which point we know we're powerless and have no choice but to remain broken or turn to God for comfort and strength. I could go on.
As for the verse, I think it would be really important to draw that conclusion from the original interpretation. I've read it in other versions rearranged ("all thing work together for good, to those who love God"), and it makes just as much sense to interpret it that God orchestrates all the things that happen in our lives to benefit us, whether we can see that benefit or not (ex: falling down the steps in your own home; so many people fall in their own houses, crash within minutes of their homes, or get overly comfortable doing routine things it seems like they could do with their eyes closed. Accidents happen, and no one can live without being subject to those risks. I bet you've been more careful about watching your steps, not just at home but in other places as well and with good reason.)
I think God works everything that happens on our lives to benefit our walk with Him, and that it's not for us to decide or always understand which events God couldn't have had a hand in. We have to trust that God knows what he's doing, has been doing it a very long time, and that he's probably pretty good at it. It's easy to look at tragedies and decide that if God loves us he couldn't have done those things or allowed them to happen, but since when has anyone's walk with Christ ever been easy.
Great thoughts. I can tell you are calvinistic in your beliefs. The debate that I have with my Calvin friends is things like Sept. 11 or Columbine or if I walk up to you and punch you in the face. Did God cause me to punch you? No. Did it surprise God? No. God, like with Adam and Eve, allowed it but didn't cause it. For God to orchestrate sin doesn't make sense. For example for God to orchestrate a couple having sex before marriage in order for them to have a kid that goes on to do great things for God doesn't make sense. Instead God uses their disobeidence and leads things to work for the good of His kingdom. I know we will have to agree to disagree but that is why I am not a calvinist. I believe that God uses and orchestrates things but I also believe in free will. Somehow both exist in the Bible.
My natural human desire to understand and explain everything says there's no reason for some things. But my tiny grasp of the God of the Bible says He knew, and He knows, and He will know — He isn't random, and he isn't surprised. Why was I born with CP? I don't know. I've wrestled with that question for the better part of 29 years now, and I still don't know. I mean, I know the medical reasons, but I don't know WHY it happened. But I'm getting to the point where I want to be okay not knowing why. I might want to know, but I'm trying to rest in the fact that He knows, and that means I don't really have to know.
God is (or perhaps more Biblically, I AM).
That's the only reason I can come up with for "everything happens for a reason".
He allows these things to occur to teach us and teach others to grow, depend on Him, trust Him, talk to Him, rely on His power, etc. Just like you said.
Still, coming out of my mouth, that sounds pious. I'm not mature enough to believe that every time, but when I look back on things I've been through, I can see God working in those situations.
Great question. I'll ask a bigger question. Why do we feel the "need" to know the reason for all things?
It's clear that our lives are but a wind and things happen and there are forces outside of us that have a part in it. I'm not too concerned in the why? as I am in the results when all is said and done.
Moe, I think the reason is that it helps us know that our pain is not in vain. To believe that God is good and then to experience pain is hard to wrestle with. If God is good then why wouldn't He protect those that He loves. Knowing that there was a reason why we went through our pain could help us deal with it. I love your perspective and I think it's one that ultimately we need to come to when we deal with our pain.
Did Job get an answer? He did not. God just said. "I'm in control, who are you to question me?"
I think we want answers, but we won't always get them.
I'll preface my thoughts by stating up front that I lean slightly more towards calvinism than free will.
I truly believe that God is working through all things(its in the Bible). I also think God is in control of all things.
Matthew 10:29 states a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without God willing it.
Ephesians 2:10-12 talk about how God has predestined us to certain things and that He is working all things to his will.
We look at all the bad that happened to Job(his family KILLED!) and God was behind it all. Allowing it to happen. In fact he is the one who gave permission for it to happen.
So if i truly believe God is in control..the question switches from "does everything happen for a reason" to "why does God allow bad things to happen?"
I was in Denver when Columbine happened. For so long people questioned why God would allow this to happen. Yet I also remember the story of Rachel Scott which brought many to their knees before Jesus.
I think the key in all this is our definition of GOOD in romans 8:28. So many times i interpret that as MY good. Rather everything God is doing is for eternal good/aka His Glory.
Lastly Freewill…I believe that we perceive ourselves to have free will. But God created us and formed us in the womb. He knew the decisions we would make…and he created us to be the person that made those decisions. We can not surprise God with our decisions. I dont think God reacts surprised to us and then pulls together a plan around our mistakes. That takes away sooo much of Gods power.
this should probably be its own blog as there is soo much more i could say on the subject…but thats what i believe.
PS I love discourse on freewill/calvinism 🙂
http://www.gotquestions.org/calvinism.htmlhttp://www.gotquestions.org/arminianism.html
I think this is the kind of thing I was trying to say. Our desire to know the reason for everything is something to fight, not to feed.
I agree. Asking why will drive you crazy. That's why I try not to.
Amen!
Mandie, me too. I want to punch them and then say "what's the reason for that?" And then I want to yell…Sucka!
Love this. The how type questions are great!
I think those people are well meaning but they are not very sensitive. I think it comes from a lack of dealing with a tragedy or loss themselves.
Burrill, wow! What a strong comment. I think that goes with trying to find a relationship with God during hard times. We may not get a why answer but we do get comfort in knowing that God is there for us and that He loves us.
Russ, it's the looking back that often reveals how God worked in the midst of a terrible situation. It's the during that's really hard. Thanks for the comment.
Agreed! I love the story of Job because he eventually asks God for a reason and God basically says I could tell you but you wouldn't understand. Job responds with my ears had heard of you but now I've seen you. Translation: I now know you personally. I used to know you based off of what I heard but now I know you. Job looked to God for answers and God offered Him a relationship.
My understanding of the Eph verse is that God predestined us for good things. He didn't predestine us for bad. When we chose to disobey God it doesn't surprise Him but He allows it. It didn't surprise Him that Adam and Eve disobeyed Him. He allowed it. Ultimately it led to His plan of His son dying but it doesn't make sense that God caused Adam and Eve to fall so that He could send His son. God works through our free will to still accomplish His purposes.
Thanks Sean. I'm neither. I think this drives some people crazy but I see some value in both. Why would God get so upset with Israel if it was His plan for them to keep turning their back on Him? They had free will to do so and God still worked things out to draw them to Himself. Ultimately He sent His son to them to redeem them.
Ooh, I like that. Really like that. All I have to do now is quote it and erase " – Rob Shepherd" from it. 🙂
Great point. Relationship is trust, even if you know the "why's" or not. Hmm, so deep!
In my personal belief, there is a system of events that we cannot control, but it all happens for a very specific reason. I believe that God has preset every event in our lives and that every event means something either to you or to someone else in some way, shape, or form. Something like falling down the stairs for example could be a number of things. If it was meant to have a purpose for you, perhaps it is God reminding you to take caution, or to remind you of your mortality and your ability to make even the simplest mistakes, etc…If it was not directed at you, perhaps it was God utilizing your purpose to cause something. Maybe weaken the stairs so that they need replacing at some point in the future by a carpenter who needed the money from the job to make next months rent so his family doesn't wind up on the streets. I believe that we have no control over what happens to us, it is all God utilizing the purpose he made into our design. I believe free-will comes into play with the mind, heart, and spirit. You may not control what happens to you, but you can choose how what you think about it, how you feel about it, and what you believe because of it. Ever since I have discovered this way of thinking, I have found myself at peace with even the worst of things. I have found humility in them. For instead of putting on the blame game, I ask the question, "For what purpose?" out of curiosity rather than conviction. So does everything happen for a reason? I believe so. Can we always understand or conceive those reasons? Absolutely not. That is a big part of what makes us human beings, and what makes God, God.
Predestination for "good things" is a little too much gospel of prosperity for me. If we have free will then that means my salvation is dependent upon me accepting God as my Savior which would give me reason to boast in my salvation..which Ephesians 2:8-9 forbids.
My main point is more clearly expressed here:
Ephesians 1:11-12New International Version (NIV)
11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.
YES.
exaaaaactly :o)
"I think the key in all this is our definition of GOOD in romans 8:28. So
many times i interpret that as MY good. Rather everything God is doing
is for eternal good/aka His Glory."
This is what I was trying to say earlier, but you just did a much better job of it.
Wow, where to start, you offered several major challenging topics, did you want blog responses or dissertations? 😉 Well, now you've got us all going, so watch out!
First, I believe none of us have the whole truth on these things figured out, but I think the discussions are valuable in getting to know God and here's my understanding of the issues though I'm sure the truth is grander than we can imagine.
On the topic does everything happen for a reason, as my favorite Rabbi / Professor might say, yes and no. Yes, in that no one can thwart God's will or plan, so the reason for our very existence is that God created us for his purposes, as varied and often mysterious as they are. God's specific purpose(s) in our lives will happen and God's ultimate purpose for eternity will happen. No in that I don't believe that literally everything happens for some grand reason or to support God's plan. While God may certainly use the mundane events of life for a reason, if every event was orchestrated by God then we would not be truly free beings capable of reciprocating love and bearing God's image, instead we would simply be robots programmed by God.
Regarding the questions you raise about why do bad things happen, the reasons are varied and complex. In general I think bad things happen in the world because God decided there was great value in creating human beings with ability to freely choose between right and wrong and freely choose whether or not to have relationship with God. God decided this freedom outweighs the downside of the bad crap we can choose to do. I also think this freedom to choose is inherent in the nature of the universe and the nature of life itself. The freedom and randomness in nature and life are necessary in order for human beings to respond in true freedom to God's call instead of being unduly coerced by the nature of the universe or the circumstances we find ourselves in. In specific circumstances, very hard to say why bad things happen and there are many reasons which we may or may not get to know, is God testing us like Job, is God punishing us like the couple who lied about their tithes, is it so God's glory might be shown like with Jesus and the blind man, is it because of someone else's bad choice that we aren't even aware of but that we're suffering the conseqeunce, or is it really just a random event, is it some combination of all these?
Regarding how to respond to people who are hurting, ask God for grace and wisdom on that one because it depends on the time, place, person, etc. Sometimes cry with them like Jesus did when Lazarus died, that seems to work generally well in the pain of the moment. But as people process pain different things speak to different people, that's why as someone I know once said, everybody needs a group, so the people who love you and know you can respond in a way that helps you.
Finally (I'm sure you're thanking God this is the last point ha ha ha, good thing Bits and Bytes are cheap), a lot of thinking about this stuff can really be a drag, one of my favorite things that keeps me positive when my head starts to hurt with all the why why why is:
– For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be
able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our
Lord. (Romans 8:38-39) AMEN!
I think sometimes asking why can be part of the healing, lots of psalms where the writer struggled, and we can imagine maybe even crying out to God asking why. In the process I think it is perhaps important not to get stuck on why, but to move on, like also happens often in psalms, to praise to God and acknowledge the good and blessings. Going through it much much tougher than just blogging about it though.
I appreciate your post and belief about God's plans and specific reasons. I would offer something for you to consider, that if God were orchestrating every minute detail down to our life, wouldn't that really make us pre-programmed robots? It seems to me our actions are inextricably linked with our thoughts, emotions, character, spirit, and personality. I don't think we can separate the actions we take from our minds and spirits, they all meld together in some kind of metaphysical way to make up who we are.
Love these examples…
Wow Rob…I don't even know how to accurately express my thoughts. I am not a calvinist…so I believe more as you do that God is sovereign and we have responsibility and they work together in the only way God can make it work. I have a hard time saying everything DOESN'T happen for a reason, because it almost comes off as saying that God isn't in control that God isn't involved…that things just happen and he is inconsequential…but at the same time to say EVERYTHING happens for a reason sometimes is to say that God literally caused that thing to happen. Now the Bible is full of events that happened to bring about something God wanted to happen. The whole God doesn't want bad things to happen to us though…or to go through pain…really? Didn't He send Jesus to SUFFER for us? Didn't He tell His apostles they would suffer for His name sake? Told us to count it all joy when we suffer? Look at what happened to Job…that Specifically was caused (by the devil) but with God's endorsement…so He ALLOWED it, of course not the author of evil. And with the apostles…all but one were KILLED for their faith…did God cause that…of course not…but did He allow it and not stop it? Absolutely…suffering is a part of the game..and everything that happens to us has been known since before the foundation of the world…so God allowing it to happen means He chose not to intervene…which means He had a reason not to. Just my 10 dollars worth of quarters
Great verse. We understand "we" from a western mindset. That is the we becomes individualistic and we read it as I. Paul would not have written from a western mindset. When he wrote we he was writing to the universal church. The church is predestined according to his plan. Read vs. 15. Paul transitions to talking about your but it's not a letter written to one person it's a group in Ephesis. This group is predestined for good works. The group as a whole. We as Church are predestined but as individuals we have a free will. Paul doesn't trump the Old Testament which has lots of examples of free will. Again not saying I'm write but it's another way to look at it.
Wow. Great comment. Romans 8:38-39 is amazing!
in the Greek text the "we" used in 1:11 is the same "we" used in 1:7. That leads me to my reasoning why yes i do in fact read it individualistically and interpret "we" as all individuals rather than as the church.
My struggles with free-will and interpreting it into my own theology actually comes from John 3:16 "whosoever believes" which most certainly sounds a whole lot like free will.
In the end, the answer is that I probably dont need to know why God is doing something. As your children do not comprehend everything you are doing for them, so I do not comprehend what God is doing. Sometimes this hurts. But Hebrews 11:1 lets me know that faith "is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see.(NLT)"
It seems like you're dismissing my thoughts on your assumption that I'm a Calvinist. I do believe in predestination, but that's not exclusively a Calvinistic thought. September 11, Columbine, and numerous other tragedies have occurred, but not outside of the will of God. As you talked about in Job, the temptation of man comes at the discretion of God. The story of the girl martyred at Columbine, leading to Christ reaching so many people is a great example of the glory God can bring himself in the midst of tragedy (i appreciated the comment that brought this situation up). There were a couple of other really good comments including things I could say but don't need to repeat. I'll throw another passage's hat into the ring of God's sovereign will to both raise up and bring low that will really pigeon hole me as a Calvinist, Romans 9.
I do appreciate the fact that you will probably disagree with me on principle, but here's my go at the punch in the face just for fun. You're not insane or even mentally disturbed, and I'm sure of that. There would be no reason that I could know of if it came as a surprise, especially since you're a pastor at my church, but I would believe that God would have a purpose and reason for why that happened to me. It could be that you were upset with me, which would be my cue to seek you out and pursue forgiveness if I'd wronged you, which goes completely against my prideful heart leading me to humility. Maybe you were frustrated about something for which you had no other outlet. Such an outburst would be a good sign of such a situation, especially if there was no specific quarrel. I could confront you and perhaps move towards rooting out the source of your struggle.
I appreciate your opinion and your teaching, and I feel like even though I disagree with you on a few points I still learn a lot from you. And though my reply is somewhat sarcastic about the purpose of face punching, I feel like God offers us a great deal of comfort during our lack of understanding and our endurance of suffering in trials and tribulation by assuring us that we are serving his purpose for our lives and the reasons for why he operates the way that he does in everything is with purpose and is just. I hope most of this makes sense.
As a side note, for any kind of trite or cookie cutter offer of bumper sticker style statements of reassurance that mean nothing in the face of suffering, I'd probably punch someone in the face too. Insensitivity isn't right, though the principle conveyed isn't without merit just on account of naive or thoughtless misrepresentation.
I do believe everything happens for a reason.
What we can't handle is not knowing or understanding the reason.
That's where faith and trust come in.
Which is incredibly hard sometimes.
The reason that I always knew that deep down I was saved that this line of thinking, this departure from God was like ripping the very fabric of my being in two. Physical, emotional, spiritual pain. I believe that those that are truly born again and turn away have a very hard time doing so, and it never leaves them with any peace in their life even compared to those who have never known Jesus as their savior. It took a long time for me to even step foot in a church again. But that..really was not the important step. My first step back was shortly before I met my wife. See I've always been a bit interdependent. Always needed someone next to me to remind me that I was not an abject failure and that someone outside of those who had to, cared about me deeply enough to put up with being around me every day that it could happen. It got to a point that I knew that the way I was was unfounded. That while I may not ever understand the reasons that I went through everything I did it does not mean that God does not see the reasons already. That I needed to start trying to again trust God. And while I had to hit pretty close to bottom emotionally and spiritually to get to that point, and I'm not all the way up the mountain of it yet. Its important that I realized that I will never be able to be all the way up that mountain. God wants us to trust Him, and walk with Him, and allow Him to be our strength. He does not want us to out of devotion to him live in fear of every choice we make, and focusing so much on the sin in our life that it makes it harder to avoid it. So, I'm where I am now. Not in an easy situation to say the least, and I do not even know how I am going to get through. I have a wife that loves me, a child on the way, and a God that I know will take care of me in the end. I'm on the verge of bankruptcy, waiting on a yes or no on a loan modification to keep my house, and just getting over an illness that has nearly fully disabled me for at least 1/4 of the past two years. I need alot of prayer, but from my past experience, I know that while I may never understand why these things have happened to me, dwelling on them and getting angry with God will only further complicate things and make it harder for me to get where I need to go. So God knew that I would go down this harsh path, does that mean that He chose for me to go down this path? No alot of this path was set up based on my choices whether knowingly or not put me down that path. God is when I chose Him, God is when I turned away from Him, God is here now, and God is at the end of this current road with whatever the near and further future has to hold for me. All you do by asking why is get in your own way, and keep God from showing you His love and grace and peace. For those who read through this all, I'm sorry it was so long. The detailed version is much longer enough to make a book out of which I'd probably write if I didn't think it would offend people and cause more harm then good. But for those who get into a situation where it seems like you are getting hit over the head continuously, remember we will not know the meaning of everything until His time. Trying to get to the why of what happens before His time in usually looking back, or maybe in heaven itself, is just going to cause more pain, and disrupt your relationship and peace in God. I wish I would have gone to someone back then to have someone tell me this 10 years ago, but who knows maybe my experience will help someone now, or down the road. I hope all goes well with the recovery for your kids Rob, I'll be praying for yall.
Wow! Rob this has been pretty amazing reading MOST of these comments I tried to read them all and by about 2am I had to stop and sleep on it : ) I have to say my whole thought process is changed now on this subject and I am thankful. I have always struggled with the whole free will and predestination thing and now after reading this I am much clearer on these, feels like I have been to church now for about 10 Sundays in a row for some AWESOME teaching time. I remeber always being told " God has a plan, everything happens for a reason" and that was sort of comforting.There are times though when it is NOT like when we were using fertility drugs for about 2 years we finally got pregnant and I had a miscarriage, I remember the doctor saying "there is NO reason these things just happen and they happen to about 80% of all women" PERIOD! Of course everyone around us kept saying No there was a reason God had a plan : ) NOT helpful. Then a year ago when we were laid off and found out right after that my husband has brain cancer with NO insuracne the same thing, I do rack my brain over and over for every little thing that happens and try to find the reason USUALLY I can find it, thankfully. BUT if I had a nickel for every time I have tried to reasure my husband and 16 year old daughter this last year that God has a plan and everything is going to be OK and they look at me and WANT to punch me in the face well lets just say I could pay off our hospital bills : ) So now I can say at least the plan was to bring us to WEC so I could read this blog to them and then we could get some answers so thankful for that and the many other blessing that come from being part of WEC! I love my Church!
Honestly, this is a worrisome subject that is very difficult to discuss. I believe that our God is not a God that will make bad things happen. I know that He allows bad things to happen — he does allow us free will. We live in a fallen world. Not everything has a reason for happening. Sometimes is is someone's bad free will that hurts someone we love. Sometimes bad things are the only things that draw us closer to God. We wouldn't need to turn to God if everything became hunky dorey after we accept Jesus as our Saviour. I don't know the answer. All I know is I have to trust God to be there when I need Him. He always is. He always was. He always will be. That I can depend on.
Josh, thanks for this comment. I appreciate the prayers. I saw Clayton King a few weeks ago. He spoke some incredible truth into my life. Like you I have felt like something was being ripped away when I've wandered from God. Thanks again.
Kim, I'm so glad that you read all the comments. There has been some great discussion. I can't believe you stayed up till 2 AM. I don't understand how God works but I'm thankful that He is faithful and brought you to WEC.
I am new at this bible stuff, can’t say I have really sat down and read the bible from start to finish so please bear with me but I thought everything was meant to make people seek Him? Good, bad, or ugly we should seek Him.
Jenna, I think that you are on to something. In the end it should cause us to seek Him. That’s why He’s good even in the midst of trouble. I just don’t know if God caused something awful to get someone to seek Him. He can and He might but I don’t know if every miscarriage, traffic accident, cancer case is a result of God causing something. He’s so good that in the end it is those things that often do cause us to grow in our faith in Him. Thanks for stopping by and adding to the discussion!
I believe things happen for a reason within reason. We’ve had three children. Two have passed away from cystic fibrosis. Our son Joshua in 1982. However at that time they didn’t know what he had died from since back them the baby had o e at least two months old. Our daughter Erin was diagnosed in 1986 when she was two months old. She lived to be 14. Our son Derek was born in 1984 and does not have CF. So, I feel that if we had known Josh had CF in 1982, we probably would not have had any more children. We were blessed to have Erin for 14 years and still have our son Derek, who is turning 29 this month. God had a plan ornmap for us all. It may not be the map we think we should have, but if we follow it, the road will lead us to HIM.
Why? I have asked that same question. God is not of terrible wrath or anger. He is a God of love. But because of this fallen world we will suffer much and we will still know that He is LORD. Job went though much to test his faith. Where were you when I laid the foundations of the world, when the angels sang and the sons of God shouted for joy. Living on earth would not be easy, it is not our world. Miscarriages are the innocents back to the Spirit for what ever reasons. God gives and God takes away. It is His right. In all the journeys we walk in life, it all makes us strong in the end. For everything there is a season. Be strong and endure to the end. We all are going though much fire to be purified. Don’t ever loose faith. (Then darkness came upon the earth and the earth was void). We are the light of the world in which Christ is in us for the Hope of Glory.